Another identity issue...

[Risu-chan]

This is one of the most openminded places I've ever seen about sexuality-related issues, so I've got a question to ask about a gender-related issue.

I've never actually worked with a transsexual before, and not with one who's changed declared genders while I've known her (ex-him).

So now I'm trying to rewire my head on what to do and how to talk without sounding stilted and things.

For the past three years, I've been talking to a man named Steve; starting next week I've got to remember that the person who matches Steve's face and voice wants to be referred to as Chastity and have female pronouns used. (I don't know whether she's attracted to men or to women; sexual identity is different than gender identity; I do know she's physiologically male and plans to stay that way; the one who's confused is me, not her, I think. ^^;; I'm trying to get un-confused...)

(For reference, my elementary-school best friend's birth name was Nicole. When she married and turned Orthodox, she changed it to Isidora, but I still can't keep my brain from thinking of her as Nicole and talking about her as Nicole.)

Has anyone got any serious advice on how I can figure out how to talk to this person whom I've known for three years as though part of the person is someone new who needs female pronouns applied and the other part is still the person I know?

And has anyone got any advice on how I can get over being squicked by her declaration that she's going to use the women's restrooms? To me, a restroom isn't a mental gender-identity decision, it's a genetic-physical-plumbing decision, and there's reasons that men's restrooms have urinals, and women's restrooms don't, and... @_@ anyone have any advice there?

I'm pretty openminded when it comes to what people want to declare themselves. I just need help figuring out how to rewire how I think about and talk to someone who's changed the declaration... if you see what I mean...

help?

[aikasan]

well... i recommend that you just simply ask her, just like an honest question so that she doesn't feel uncomfortable, i think she would feel much better if you do so, because communication is the base of any kind of friendship, almost nobody stops to ask how does she feels about it without bad intentions, and problem fixed! you won't have to break your head everytime you need to talk to her and she won't feel bad when you use a gender pronoun she doesn't like, just treat her like a normal girl and she will feel much better when you are around, good luck!

ohh, and about the restroom thing,she hasn't had an opration yet, has she? if not, then it would be weird in some way but in the other hand it would be as normal as ever, is like when men are in anyone's house, you don't exactly have a urinal for them do you? you don't have two bathrooms, one for gils and one for boys, you just have a unisex bathroom, and that's exactly how it will be at work, so just get it out of your system and try to get used to see her there (^^ i hope this is helpful)

[Risu-chan]

^^;; But in my house my bathroom door has a lock so that nobody walks in on me when I'm trying to untangle the various layers of hose and slip and skirt and stuff before going back out in public... the work restrooms aren't like that (and I dare anybody to try to untangle a bunched-up slip in a restroom stall the size of the ones at work; the doors open out because there's about enough space to sit straight down..)

^^;;;;;; guess I just have to work on it...

thanks for the advice though...

[aikasan]

@[email protected]'t believe you, what kind of bathrooms are those?!!, well, then yes, i guess the only choise you have left is to get used to it,

*gives all her mental strengh to risu-chan*(^^that's all i've got)

[Crystallyne]

Hmmm... That's an interesting problem. I've never come across it personally, so I can't give first-hand advice.

If I understand you correctly, you just want help on how to think about Chastity as Chastity instead of as Steve, right? The only advice I can think of is to practice. (And I'm not joking.) For a few weeks, just practice by thinking of Chastity (have an image of her in your head at the moment) and just speak aloud using feminine pronouns. A picture might be useful, but I don't know if you have one or not...

Also, you're a writer, right? Well then, write imagined conversations between you and Chastity, or anecdotes from previous experiences together, and then read them aloud. (This is advice from my public speaking teacher to me from several years back that actually helped me. At first, I was extremely embarrassed to be reading out loud to no one, but it helped me get used to giving talks in public.)

About actually speaking to her, I don't really have any advice. It might seem odd and strained for a while, but as long as you're trying, it should be all right. (Don't start avoiding her, though. She would probably notice that more than any tense or strained conversation.) Besides, Chastity must have considered all of these issues and probably lots more before she decided to stay at the same work-place during this difficult time in her life. If she's willing to put up with the reactions, then I'm sure it will mean a lot to her that you are trying to work with this new change of situation.

That's all I really have to say. Good luck in rewiring your brain.

~Crystal
(who is at this very moment supposed to be studying for an exam that will occur in less than an hour...)

[Risu-chan]

The thing is, in my head Chastity IS a fictional character at the moment.

I'm too used to people crossdressing in theater; my brain is trying to handle this like "okay, so onstage it's 'Chastity' and offstage..." and then I remember this IS offstage... and it's just a name I'm applying to "someone that Steve plays", which I'm sure isn't what he/she wants me to think...

and the Steve I've known is your prototypical computer-science ubergeek. I kind of didn't have much in common with him when he was a him; I'm not sure *how* to have something in common with her, because I'm sure that the personality doesn't change with the name and the clothes; not unless she's going for serious method acting, which leads me back to the "I have to stop handling this like the fiction or theater idioms I'm used to" thing...

^^;;;;; : ractice practice::

<font color="#660033" size="1">[ December 11, 2003 05:59 PM: Message edited by: Risu-chan ]</font>

[Winter's Shadow]

I'm not really sure how to advise you on this. I'm used to hanging around with people who have gender issues, and thus have become accustomed to this sort of thing without having to put much thought into it. Heck, I AM a person with gender issues. XD

My first recommendation is to go to Chastity and apologize first off if you accidentally use the wrong pronoun or name, and explain that it'll take a bit of time to get used to. Most people will understand this, and not hold it against you if you screw up a bit at first. Then, as they transition more, it becomes a bit easier for you to adjust to.

It'll take a bit of concentration at first to remember, I'll bet, but do it enough, and it'll become second-nature.

If you like, I can direct you to a few of my transexual friends who have, with the exception of surgery, transitioned from men to women. Maybe talking to them and getting a bit of advice from them might help a little?

As for the bathrooms? Why does it squick you out? So someone with a penis is going to take a leak in a toilet that you may use. That sounds an awful lot like what happens at home when two people of opposite genders live together. It makes little different. They stand or sit, do their duty, and are off. Chances are you're not going to see her whipping it out as she walks through the door. [img]tongue.gif[/img]

I wokred at a place with unisex bathrooms before. One unisex bathroom, really, 'cause that was all we had. No urinals or anything. Just one toilet. It really made no difference in the end.

At least, to me. I never thought about it much.

Hope that was some help, at least . . .

[Kaori]

Wow, It's really amazing the way people talk here. I'm surprised everyone is so open with these issues, I think a lot of people in here must have a lot of these issues in common. It's nice to see, that nobody is jugding any body else. [img]graemlins/rainbow.gif[/img] [img]graemlins/sun.gif[/img] [img]graemlins/rainbow.gif[/img]

[Winter's Shadow]

I think it's really messed up if the bathroom doors don't have locks on them. >_<

But hey, if the person is mentally female, chances are they're not going to think much of it.

It will be an adjustment, though. I've never really met anyone who's has switched in the middle of me knowing them. I tend to meet people who have already at least started the transition by the time we've met. :/

[Lamasu]

Originally posted by Kaori:
Wow, It's really amazing the way people talk here. I'm surprised everyone is so open with these issues, I think a lot of people in here must have a lot of these issues in common. It's nice to see, that nobody is jugding any body else. [img]graemlins/rainbow.gif[/img] [img]graemlins/sun.gif[/img] [img]graemlins/rainbow.gif[/img]

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Its probably has to do with the nature of manga we reading. the kind Sakura Crisis are scanlating.

ie - a lot of us are yaoi fans which essentially makes us openminded about homosexuality, and yuki kaori manga are always examining a lot of the morals many people never bother to question. which makes her writing very eye opening indeed.

I don't find it that surprising that this comunity is open minded - but I am very impressed and gratefull for it.

to be honest I always had to hide my own sexuality and only when I started getting into anime fandom and yaoi did I discover so many interesting people gender and sexuality wise and so many open minded people.

I wish the whole world was like this board ^_^